Sunday 17 June 2012

Number 1 Is Always The First


The Portuguese have the following “diz-me com quem andas e eu dir-te-ei quem és” which means “tell me who you hang out with and I’ll tell you who you are”.

I’ll adapt that expression to our friend Derek Flack by saying “tell me where's your apartment in PdL is and I’ll tell you that you’re a liar.” 

No, I'm not implying that he's lying about his address in PdL because that is, as said before, one of the few things that we’re certain he was truthful about

But Flack is so unfortunate that when he lies he hinders his cause and when he speak truthfully he goes and does the exact same. And that's what happens when he says where his apartment is: Rua do Ramalhete, Lote 1, Apartment XXX.

It shows clearly something that is totally inconvenient for a “convenientwitness to “conveniently” have seen Pimpleman where he was “convenientlystanding, in the top third of Rua Dr. Francisco Gentil Martins.

Rua do Ramalhete, Lote 1, Apartment XXX” means clearly that Flack’s apartment block, in PdL, in which he says his is, is at the beginning of the Rua do Ramalhete. There’s no lower number than 1, is there?

#1 is always the first house in any street. Lote 1 is the first block apartment of Rua do Ramalhete.


It’s either in the area of the blue or of the red circle. Fred’s GPS says that it’s in the red, near The Mill, but as always, we’ll consider both hypotheses.

Anyone living in PdL has basically three walking destinations: heading for beach or the church area and doing so for commercial reasons, such as going to a supermarket or to the pharmacy.

Below, the various logical routes from both ends of Rua do Ramalhete (red and blue) to the any of the three referred destinations, with the exception of one: the Baptista supermarket.


But to that supermarket, logic dictates that the detour be the light blue if coming from the blue route, or be the orange if coming from the red.

The only destination that could make Flack use any other route would be if he would be going to Tapas. However the pool is for the resort’s clients only and for dinner we all know how hard it was to get a booking even if you were staying there, which was not Flack's case.

Besides we already know that all the action in PdL was concentrated in the “PdL Red Triangle” which is near the church.

The fact that there's no logical route between Flack's holiday residence and the Tapas Entrance explains why he changes, on the same day, the motive for his stroll from going to Baptista’s (which doesn’t make any sense even for him) to a leisure walk. 

And also why he seems not to be familiar with the space near apartment 5A and made the mistake he made about the parking lot being in front of walking pathway behind that apartment:



Even in small towns there are roads that we never enter. For no other reason than it isn't convenient or logical.

There’s no reason for Flack to be walking in Rua Dr. Francisco Gentil Martins when he says he allegedly sees Pimpleman:

91 comments:

  1. The interesting thing is that witnesses are always English who see everything .....and are from LiverP... and around or by social or professional knowledge

    ReplyDelete
  2. He should be a neighbor of TS and probably of the Hubbards, since the British in PDL seems to live closely like a compound. Then, the action program was baked in a dinner, with papers to practice the story, forgeting important details, the streets. AND WITHOUT KNOWING THAT ONE DAY PJ WILL RELEASE THE PROGRAM FOR THEIR NIGHTMARE.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Well said 12:04
    The portuguese who were accused of being sardines muncher and known by their traditional adiction to coffee with having a 'bica' all time (I'm portuguese), saw nothing. I believe, many portuguese were on their way to have their 'bica' or a small break just to chat a bit. If Pimple man, was real and not a cartoon on Mccann's circle, or an outsider, the portuguese will spot him and report the guy to the police. We should not forgot how shocked was the all country with case, to the point of having people praying in 'Fatima' and having the portuguese running to give donations to their Fund. Everybody was a police and trying to help solving the case. Not a single portuguese saw anything. And I can enlarge that condition to Spanish, French, Germany and Deutch.Only the british,in PDL, have a special eye to spot special things.

    ReplyDelete
  4. Anon Jun 17, 2012 12:04:00 PM

    Flack is not from Liverpool or lots of other witnesses so we shouldn't condemn a whole city.

    ReplyDelete
  5. The devil is in the detail indeed but it takes a special eye to see it. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  6. Textusa:

    You did well to correct. I even know the files, the locations of witnesses.

    But, now since a few days ago and have been following a case, how many, road traffic accident, and the drama of those so afflicted Parents.

    Like many today I had an unforgivable lapse because my thought was there.

    But the last part of the comment I think is in agreement, as everyone knows, better or worse. Like "we're such good friends."

    The LiverP ..... I wish only the best and in the case of road traffic accident with a young man with more than 20 years.

    So sorry but my sufferings did me wrong improperly

    ReplyDelete
  7. Anon Jun 17, 2012 6:26:00 PM,

    No need to apologise. We all make mistakes and it takes a great person to assume it.

    I just thought important we don't get drawn into a BH discussion about Liverpool and witnesses.

    If you google Hillsborough and the Sun you'll see how the police tried to blame Liverpool fans and briefed the Sun.

    The Inquiry eventually blamed police failings.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Greetings from a defeated Holland.
    Congratulations, Portugal!

    ReplyDelete
  9. Thinking about Wikileaks and of Gordon Brown, I again start to wonder if diplomats who work(ed) at the British consulate in Portimao could have been Tapas 10, 11 and 12.A freezer, etc.Did they have orders to help concealing the body in the consulate and that's why the dogs never found it? 20 km from Praia da Luz is a lot.
    Because how come the British ambassador knew the McCanns are involved in the crime? he could know that Brown was helping them but speaking about their involvement, he must have heard from those diplomats that the case goes beyond an accident.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I agree with anon. at 4:24pm, who wrote that NO portuguese people ever saw any suspicious looking person(s)around the flat. Isn't it uncanny that only british people strolled around the streets of Luz?! No portuguese walking the streets, in aportuguese town?! This is even more unbelievable when whe think that just behind the spot where the "suspect" was seen by the brits, very, very close, there is a kindergarten, full of portuguese children, with portuguese parents that would be either leaving their children there or picking them up, and not to mention the staff of the kindergarten, who are always very cautious/suspicious to any strangers hanging around the premises, particularly at playtime, when the children come out into the garden. Surelly they would have noticed a stranger conspicuously standing next to the building for a long time!
    Where were all the portuguese of Luz??? It seems like an episode of "The twilight zone"!

    ReplyDelete
  11. Anon@ 18, 1:00Pm,
    The conclusion is maybe very simple. The Portuguese were there. There is no way to not having portuguese near what looks like the PDL downtown. Who was not there, was Pimpleman. Pimple man, or the sample used by the Mccann's was a musician known in PDL, who use to play on the streets to entertain residents and tourists and enlarge his week incomes. What attract the Mccann's, was his odd figure. As usual, from the top of their arrogance, they imply that the guy was so poor that has no rights. Then, no problem to stick a so insane crime to him. With help of their friends and a little lucky, the media will pick the guy and do the rest. Will frame him and will destroy him. What went wrong, was the quick attitude of PJ who dismiss him and report it to the media. End of the game, with police, but not with public( the British public). They recover the story for their mccmentary to sell it to the British public and look for more donations. In Portugal and Spain, at the time, the donations were not anymore a good business, but in Uk, with help of Chanel 4, the marketing could work.
    I always find it amazing why they did not sell the Mccmentary to TVs out of Uk, specially in Spain and Portugal. They sell so many interviews... Why they have not tried to sell the mccmentary, translated or not? Because the British public was the target and was based in a lie and a serious accusation against a British man living in a foreigner country. probably the musician was even without family in Portugal and just feels protected by the words of the police. He had no money to sue the Mccann's or their helpers. When the Mccann's brought him to the case, they know his situation. DF and TS mother, like Mrs Fenn or Murat, must know the musician from long time and advised the Mccann's.
    That is my point of view, because I really don't believe a single word or attitude coming from the Mccann's. Nothing on them is natural or innocent, at least when their daughter is the subject.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Any news about McCannfiles, the best and most complete blog about Madeleine? We were kept up to date with all happenings around the case, Nige Moore was doing everything to inform us. I hope he is ok, not sick and that he will come back soon.

    ReplyDelete
  13. It is odd that witnesses are mostly British and even stranger that the Sun or NOTW always got the exclusives and none of the locals living in pdl witnessed anything. The hoax letter that was sent from Holland later it emerged the Mccanns had once lived in Holland !!
    Gerry's mysterious stolen wallet incident enabling a few secret hours perhaps to meet up with the media arranging the next week's front page 'exclusive'.
    The posed photographs of the Tapas friends standing outside court in all the papers giving the impression they had just emerged from court or indeed Gerry photographed standing outside the White House giving the impression he'd just met with the President the PR stunts are unbelieveable (literally) - but will we ever find out what goes on in the minds of the twisted Mccanns.

    ReplyDelete
  14. McCann files are still on line and up to date.

    ReplyDelete
  15. The 195 leads to the case make me think of the Alfayad's investigation on Diana's and Dodi's death. The most absurd stories came out of his privete detectives, he himself was telling also a lot of absurdity. He saw Diana's body, she talked after the accident, she was pregnant and intending to get married...
    We can not blame the McCanns and Mitchell for being pathological liers. This seems to be normal in England.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Mccannfiles is not updated for quite long. Same with Joana's Blog. I hope everything is ok with them. Just a small break and not the end of a road looking for the truth and for justice for a little girl.
    Personally, I miss the posts of Dr. Roberts which are always a very intelligent and accurate eyesight.
    I hope they all come back soon.

    ReplyDelete
  17. What has concerned me is Pat Brown's short fused enthusiasm. After spending time and money to go to Luz very little came of it. Why such a big show before and so quiet about it afterwards? She did say she had a lot of surprises for both pro and anti alike... anyone remember any?

    ReplyDelete
  18. Just checked again and Nigel on McCann files warned in April that the site may be erratic for a few weeks as there was an ongoing hardware problem.
    Joana often goes quiet before coming back with a series of posts.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Anon 19, 6:51,
    I don't want to be nasty, but that is my feeling regarding Pat B:
    I never kept too much hope on her "demarches". She always, look dubious at my eyes and since that case had so many opportunists ( in the real sense of the word) looking for publicity, I always doubt her interest: helping the police and trying to solve the case or use the case as a trampolin to promote her books in another market - Europe? At moment, I go with 2nd possibility. Why....
    - If, my memory is accurate, back in Sept 2007 she wrote to the Mccann's offering her services to try to solve the case. This information was available in many places in the Internet ( including Mccannfiles if I'm not in error). She wrote articles telling that. The McCann's refused or didn't answer her proposal. Too risky, since they probably don't know what she wants to search- an alive girl or a body? As we know from the files and from Mccann's arguido status, the police was/ still searching a body. The Mccann's search nothing. She, as an investigator must know, what was the conclusion of the police. Then, why offering her services to the arguidos/ suspects? Since that time, I look at her attitude with a lot of ??? And over the time my ??????? got BIGGER AND BIGGER. She went to Algarve with a lot of noise, to produce 2 pictures( one with TB and another with GA) and 2/3 articles on her blog that end up with a huge page of publicity to her last book and a self promotion of her participations in TV programs. Too little for a so big noise and a so long trip. The only information new for me, was the sight to 5A, from the buildings in front of the OC. Anybody there could have seen the activities around the 5A ( the abductor jumping a window with a child- a very odd situation) . But if the " abductor" was a father carrying his child- nothing wrong, nothing strange to report.
    Lets see what she reserves to the future. But clearly, she didn't belong to the same basket as Joana Morais, Textusa or some others, who voluntarily spent a lot of time informing the public and looking for justice for a little girl.

    ReplyDelete
  20. People have more to do than to update their blogs.There is a tough crises going on in Europe and probably JM and NM are giving all of themselves to keep their jobs and that is tiring. None of those two people have a fund, they never cheated anyone, they are honest.We have to wait.But I must admit that I really miss McCann Files.

    ReplyDelete
  21. I wonder how many secrets the PJ are keeping, since 2007. There must be issues they never talked about, like every police do. For a long time I suspected that they knew Kate is the perpetrator because of an anonymous letter.Short ago I found a video with Martin Brunt where he tells that it comes from a mistake Kate made during the interrogation as witness. Regretfully I told it on Joana's blog and the video disappeared from youtube. But at least we know now it was Kate's mistake(Brunt does not use the word mistake).I can't wait for the day Kate will be interrogated again wilst Gerry will be flushing his head in the wc.
    This day will come very soon.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Jun 20, 2012 12:51:00 AM
    Delete

    The PJ hold no secrets on this case.

    They had to compile the all the information for adequate authority to make a decision on the subject. That's the PJ Files.

    To withhold information from those who have to decide would mean basic stupidity and ill-meaning.

    And that would mean that the PJ would have to have someone dedicated exclusively to decide in which file, the PJ or "the secret one", each piece of paper would go to. That decision had to be taken at once because the pages, as can be seen, are sequentially numbered. At least in the PJ Files.

    About "like every police do" is a phrase that has spawned many a myth. We here don't appreciate myths.

    About Kate making a mistake in a statement to the PJ. She didn't make one. She made many. It+s all in the PJ Files.

    ReplyDelete
  23. PJ has a clear idea about what happened inside the 5A and who was involved. Few doubts remain (accident or homicide?) But no doubts that the girl died and is a body that needs to be searched.
    Unfortunately the evidences are not enough to charge the persons involved, but this doesn't mean they are innocent or were cleared. One can question,'why they are not enough'? Because, the crime happen in Portugal and for the good and the bad, the legal system gave many rights to the suspects: the right to be silence when the answer of a question could incriminate you, the right to be considered innocent untill reaching the bottom of all evidences. On that particular case, the suspects were blessed with some particular decisions from the authorities: the decision to not look at their medical and bank records. The decision to not trace down their mobile activities. If PJ, had been allowed to use all instruments available and normally used to investigate similar cases, the case will be solved on the first 2 weeks. That's why, Stuart Prior used a very famous and controversial sentence in 2007,' for much less(evidences) he arrested people in UK'. In fact, that case has a pile of mistakes delivered by the suspects and who help them on the cover up. Even without tracking down the mobile calls( which I still believing will be enough to understand the trip done by the body and by who carried it) the all story delivered by the Mccann's, doesn't fit and just point to one direction- They LIE and if they lie is because they have something to HIDE. Then they are not INNOCENT on what happen to their daughter.
    And one can question 'why the FSS lab was shut down after that case', when many doubts were surrounding the veracity of the reports sent to Portugal and THE STORAGE OF THE FORENSIC SAMPLES RECOVERED FROM THE FLAT AND THE SCENIC. If I'm not in error is mandatory for a lab to keep the samples safe, available and in good condition for further investigations, if the case was not solved. Even because the investigation in criminology have a quick and amazing evolution every year. Why the FSS lab was shut down and nobody question it in UK? Where are the samples now? Samples cannot be destroyed only because they were used to do tests.
    I'm a Biologist. The world where that experts work is a micro-world, where you use a very small amount of the sample to do tests. The commitment is to test and simultaneous preserve the sample to allow other tests to be done. I don't understand how the 'low copy number test' could have destroyed the samples. Unless, they were deliberated destroyed.
    And where is the report regarding the hair found on the car boot? That could not be mistaken with anybody else and could not be excused by the rubbish pizzas, or meat, or nappies pretending to show the poor hygienical skills of the Mccann's.

    ReplyDelete
  24. Which one of you has gotten any knowlege of DNA? Or could ask somebody? I did not succeed finding the answer to that:
    In 2007 the police found 15 alleles out a sample, instead of the 19 ones demanded by the Portuguese law. We are now in 2012 and is it possible to find the missing ones now, after five years of progression in the science? The police must still have all of the material found that time.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Anon 10.49 excellent post - you sum it up perfectly.

    ReplyDelete
  26. How can we find out what is going on in England in case the site McCann Files is not yet up to date?
    That site is the best source we have.

    ReplyDelete
  27. Few notes regarding the Forensic tests and the FSS reports:
    (For who wants to read all the rubbish(according to me), the reports are available at Mccannfiles(FSS reports or Forensic reports):

    1- A pillowcase(saliva)from the 5A was used as a source for Madeleine DNA sample. Amazing, that pillowcase which belongs to a resort and had been used by many people before, was not contaminated and had a DNA that could be used as a sample for Madeleine and not a complicated one coming from more then one person(start already here the strange(ODD) way of the forensic tests. Strangely, the forensic biologists investigators who spent time teaching high qualified polices about DNA(something they know on daily base)said nothing about a simple question that should ring bells since the beginning- WHY A PILLOWCASE WAS SENT FOR A DNA SOURCE AND NOT A HAIBRUSH, A TOOTHBRUSH, A PIECE OF USED CLOTH? Something more personal and having 100% of possibilities to belong to the victim? Any way, so high qualified, but without eyes for the details.
    2- The DNA found on the pillowcase had 50% of his alleles coming from Gerry and 50% coming from Kate. That shows that belong to one of their biological children. Why was it, not from Sean or Amelie? Because further in the reports, the FSS Scientists said that Sean and Amelie had a totally different DNA then the one found in the pillowcase. Using parts exclusions, the DNA in the pillowcase was from Madeleine. But using also the same point of view, The twins could not be used as excuses for what was found in the car, since their DNA was different then the one from Madeleine. Sorry, Mccann's, but when you excused what was found with nappies, you show, you don't even read the reports.
    3- In the reports regarding the 15 alleles in 19, the FSS lab said that 3 people contributed to that sample and Madeleine shared with her parents some of the Peaks(genes) but these combination of 19 alleles are unique and a characteristic of (ONLY) her DNA. Well, in a combination of 19 that belong only to her, they found 15 that match perfectly. Very strange to find such percentage of matching DNA in the boot of the scenic. Then, why creating all the confusion with the sample coming from 3 or 5 persons. Could be thousands, this 15/19 are only from her. I think, here was the main reason for PJ to believe she is dead and for Pinto de Abreu to have no doubts that they will be made arguidos at the end of the enquiry in Sept 2007.
    Further down in the report, the scientist went on with his rethoric about being a genuine sample or matching by chance( if all the investigators used that rethoric, DNA will never be used as evidence to condemn criminals; but he made it clear that if he was asked about the sample belonging to Madeleine, he had to say 'yes'.
    4- I found it amazing, the excuses they gave to destroy samples. Because they were potential danger for the health. Why? most of them were dried samples, since the ones using fresh saliva or blood were done in Portugal to be used as references from the people who potentially enter the 5A or used the scenic. Which disease was on the samples that could be potentially danger? AIDS? I don't got that.
    5- The FSS made it clear that the samples came to them in sealed envelopes. If so, when and by who they were contaminated? The flat, was contaminated by all the people invited by the Mccann's before the arrive of the police. But what about the scenic? and what about the particular location of the luggage of the scenic?
    6-Amazing also the report regarding the hair. Hair could have roots or not. The roots could show if the hair falls from an alive person or from a body, but we cannot have contaminated hair. They said, they found hair from 3 persons. Amazing, did not nominate that persons and said nothing about the condition of the hair( roots/no roots). A very convennient report to fit the previous ones.The problem is PJ said the hair was a very good sample.

    ReplyDelete
  28. I think Pat's interest about the case is genuine.

    She was on the ground to make sure that what she thought and wrote was correct. Confirmed.

    Not much more to write and I do not think she is the kind of woman who likes to repeat herself.

    America is big world and Pat has more to do than devote her time to lost causes.

    Yet, perhaps she may surprises us one of these days ....

    ReplyDelete
  29. One more detail regarding the pillowcase used as a source for Madeleine DNA reference. The cleaner in charged with duty on the 5A gave an interview to RTP, where she said that she cleaned the flat on Wednesday. Normally bed clothes are changed on the cleaning days. If so, why choosing a pillow used one night to be a source for the victim DNA? There was on the pillow, enough material to find the DNA profile belonging to Madeleine. Only the samples found in suspicious places were not good enough to clarify anything. That, yes, is very suspicious for me.
    Interesting, on the FSS reports, when they list the samples appears "vomit". From who was the vomit?

    ReplyDelete
  30. I found Kate's statement as witness, September 2007, but I could not identifie the mistake that convinced the PJ that she is the perpetrator. It is a summary of what she said, not the complete dialog, questions and answers.
    Does any of you know by chance what were her fatal words?

    ReplyDelete
  31. According to Amaral, short ago, it is possible to identifie a person through a hair with no roots.This was not possible in 2007, I guess.
    He cited Holland and Germany that are capable to analise those hairs.
    He said it is proved that Madeleine was sedated till the last day of her life. The McCanns have a lot to explain.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Kate must deeply regret her book, deeply regret her comments about the Portuguese police. She never expected Cameron would involve the Met in the case. She expected continuing making smoke and mirrors till eternity.All of the judges and all of the police and public prosecuters will read her book, her offenses, her lies.Great,Dumb Blond, you must be deadly scared. What Rebekah Brooks did to you both was a trap, she used both of you for four years and she betraded you, demanding the involvement of the Met.The media are nobody's friends, the PJ and Yvonne Martin warned you in 2007 and you refered to become their prey. Look at what happened.

    ReplyDelete
  33. I think Kate was incriminated by the evidences PJ show to her and her lawyer. She was not able to explain what was found and decide to not answer 48 questions, leaving all doubts in the air. Innocent people answer everything. Most of the questions in this enquiries are related with factual moments lived by the victim. That is what I can imply from the advise made by PJ: 'If she was aware that by not answering such questions she could be damaging the search of her daughter'. She replied saying yes. How can an innocent mother give such answer to the police in charged of the search of her daughter?
    Pinto de Abreu was absolutely sure, she will be made arguido at the end of the day ( means the evidences were quite strong and irrefutable). AND KATE LET US KNOW THAT TROUGH HER BOOK. Soon after they left Portugal, Pinto de Abreu stops being their lawyer. Something related with a personal crisis and emotional incompatibility since he was the President of the Ethic Commission at the time? That also ring some bells: Why a lawyer abandonned a case that could gave him planetarium publicity and bring him to the top? Because he knows, was a death case that could kill his reputation inside Portugal?

    ReplyDelete
  34. According to PJ the hair recovered from the boot of the Scenic was a very good sample. Means that had roots. From the FSS reports,hair is considered a non perishable sample and has to be preserved up to 30 years, unless somebody request his destrution. According also to PJ, the report regarding that samples were never sent to Portugal. This remain to be answered by the UK authorities. Why they hold that report ( or the hair was not tested under a special request)? Instead of wasting time and money following death lines, SY and Redwood must pick the strings that were left behind by the british authorities, in 2007, and send the requested reports/evidences to Portugal.
    I found it also interesting some details on the FSS reports:
    - Some samples were not tested or were destroyed at the Home OFFice request.
    - Most of the samples will be destroyed, unless the defendant part ask to keep it preserved. Why the defendant part? Is it a normal procedure in all investigations? I presume that the defendant part is the legal team in charged with defense of the suspects. If so, were lies the rights of the victims and the accusation part?
    - The Scientist in charged with tests, made two things that appear very odd to me:
    1- he presented all his skills in writing, like a curriculum vitae. Why? To impress the portuguese? To intimidate PJ and sent a message saying 'I'm the best, don't try even to doubt my conclusions?' I never saw that anywhere. Is it a normal procedure in all investigations in UK? I don't think that when a police team request some tests to a specific lab, the testers will present all their skills and teach the police. What an arrogance. Normally they sign and answer particular questions only under particular police or court requests.

    2- The Scientist signed a term of responsibility assuming that everything he said was true and he did not manipulate any results. Why he need to sign that? By signing that, who is he protecting? Manipulated results could be expected from a national lab? If not, why such document was signed? No surprise that the lab was shut down.
    Maybe too much things compromising people at the top.
    PJ should insist in requesting the samples back to Portugal. They should put pressure and make that known to the all world. UK, will be in a very bad situation if they had to assume that they destoyed samples from an unsolved case involving a british child. This should open a important debat to understand why the samples were destroyed and why the Mccann's did not sue the british authorities for doing that? Any innocent parent, believing that his child is at an unknown place under the hands of a Paedo, will not hesitate to sue the authorities and ask responsibilities.

    ReplyDelete
  35. It is my understanding that police can take samples when someone is arrested but if the person is not charged those samples are immediately destroyed. I think the person who is released without charge can ask for the samples to be kept to go on a database.

    I know that samples are not always destroyed immediately as evidence of this was shown to me a few weeks ago by someone wrongfully arrested. He now believes that the database contains samples that are there illegally.

    It would seem samples are more likely to be kept than destroyed.

    ReplyDelete
  36. When a case is solved, is normal to have the samples destroyed.
    If the case is not solved, specially when involves missing people and lake of a body, I think, the samples are preserved. There is always new methods and new technics that could be applied on the samples to achieve better results.
    I never heard about samples destroyed in unsolved cases.
    And on the reports we can see that the lab says that no perishable samples could be preserved for a space of time that could be up to 30 years.
    I remember that in Portugal for the " Camarate case" ( where the PM and the Defense Minister lost their lives), the samples were re- tested many years after the crime.

    ReplyDelete
  37. @ "From who was the vomit?"
    Well, I think the vomit had come from Gordon Brown, who was under pressure of the Sun and of the News of the World.

    ReplyDelete
  38. dna samples once taken are kept for years, especially in such a high profile case as this. At some stage the dna samples will be required, but Madeleine will not find justice until those covering for the Mccanns and the Mccanns face justice.

    This case has dragged on now for 5 years and has made a mockery of the justice system.

    Only 13% of the fund money was ever spent on searching for Madeleine to keep up appearances, the rest was spent on keeping the parents out of prison.


    Days after Madeleine vanished the fund was set up to make money and its been making money ever since. They announced there would be a big fund raising event before the first anniversary of Madeleines disappearance after she'd only been gone days there is only one way Mccanns could have known that, they knew exactly what had become of Madeleine these ridiculous age generated photographs being circulated in the media are nothing more than another Mccann PR stunt.

    Kates book of sex and lies is a disgrace it sold newspapers and made more money for Mccanns which is just about what this is all about.

    imo Madeleine had been continually drugged at night by the parents, she had a reaction to the medication and died. Gerry decided to cover it up because otherwise they would have been ruined, Kate states that in her book that when they were arrested Gerry said 'we are ruined' they roped the Tapas friends into the cover up via Payne.
    The group were probably a bunch a swingers that night around the table they had drunk plenty, maybe some of them even believed Madeleine had been abducted but decided to stay quiet because they are nothing more than a bunch of cowards all afraid of losing their respectability, jobs and families.
    The media became involved and Madeleine became a money making machine for the Mccanns giving them celebrity status and money, something they had never experienced. Publicity hungry people all became involved none of them helping Madeleine all of them helping themselves.

    ReplyDelete
  39. Was that vomit Madeleine's and could she have died of suffocation because she was deeply sleeping due to the sedation? In any statement we read about vomit.
    But suffocation does not cause bleeding.

    ReplyDelete
  40. I'm the one who introduced the vomit subject here because while reading the FSS reports available at Mccannfiles, I noticed that Vomit was mentioned on the section related to the samples. That's why I don't understand why vomit was mentioned because I never heard PJ or any commentator talking about vomit. Only O' Brien used the vomit of one of his children to explain why he was out of the Tapas table. But workers from the OC said, he did not request the services of the resort to change bed clothes or clean the room. If we think that the Tapas dinner has high chances to never happened that night, like the negligence....
    There was high chances to have children sedated that night, BUT NOT MADELEINE. probably all the other children, except Madeleine, were sedated to allow the adults deal with problem without many troubles. In that case, one of the O' Brien children could really feel unwell and vomit. If so, the services of the resort will be not called to avoid raising suspicions and the clothes involved with vomit disappeared like the blue bag. I believe in that investigation, samples were recovered also from the Tapas 7 flats, and analyzed. Is it, because they are not clear with sedation, the weapon the Mccann's used to frame them and keep their mouths closed? In fact, we see strange people publicly supporting the Mccann's, but not their close family or the Tapas 7.
    Sorry, if I cause some disturbance with vomit, but I don't believe Madeleine was sedated or vomit as a result of any sedation. There was no logical reason to sedate her. Per contrary, there is a lot of logic in having the other children sedated after they realized Madeleine was gone.

    ReplyDelete
  41. Re vomit- there is nothing in PJ files about vomit samples as evidence. The FSS simply state that certain samples, such as vomit and urine are perishable and liable to be destroyed. That doesn't mean they have necessarily been included in PJ evidence, Having said that, nothing relating to this case should have been destroyed.

    ReplyDelete
  42. Jun 21, 2012 1:51:00 PM, wrote:

    "But suffocation does not cause bleeding."

    It would, indirectly, if the person who was suffocating would be submitted to an emergency tracheostomy...and I remember reading somewhere a reference to some laryngeal/cerebral fluids ( a broken larynx), amongst the samples collected by the forensic team.
    This scenario would be possible if Madeleine had a tragic accident or an allergic reaction to some medication that resulted in a swollen larynx and consequent asfixiation. The parents, both doctors would immediately perform a tracheostomy to allow air to enter the lungs. Well, it's just a thought...

    After some research I found this:

    http://steelmagnolia-mccannarchives.blogspot.pt/2011/05/reports-on-death-of-madeleine-before.html

    "An early forensic report is alleged to have mentioned a certain blood spray ... commensurate with a certain type of broken larynx ... some DNA samples found related to cerebal fluids indicates a broken neck or fracture skull". Also "Sousa himself told of this very fine mist of spray that was found in the apartment".

    ReplyDelete
  43. @ Anonymous said...
    I found Kate's statement as witness, September 2007..........
    Jun 20, 2012 11:35:00 PM.

    I don't know of these "fatal words" you refer to but this is an interesting comment from an interview with Goncalo Amaral. This is taken from another forum - I hope this is permissible as it is very interesting.


     Re: Dr Martin Roberts: A crying shame
      sweetex Yesterday at 8:26 am

    Cristobell wrote:
    In the early days the PJ suspected Kate. Presumably they had their reasons for this. Kate was interviewed for 12 or so hours, and it must have been stressful and traumatic, especially for a mother whose child has disappeared. Witness can and do 'crack' under interrogation. And the brief dramatic insight we are given in this particular interview, may have been far more extreme under the duress of intense questioning. It would be interesting to hear Petermac's thoughts on this.


    @Cristobell

    Just to add to this, I have read this in the mccannfiles http://www.mccannfiles.com/id165.html. It was part of an interview with Goncalo Amaral.

    Q – It was said that Kate was very cold. But I've seen her cry.

    A - So did I. She is not cold. There was a moment, in a meeting with them, when we set out the sofa theory. Kate put her head down, looking distant, and, after a few seconds, she looked up again as if nothing had happened. She looked like she was escaping from the role that she was interpreting.

    Q - When you raised the hypothesis that the girl might have died after falling off the sofa, did Kate McCann answer?

    A - She did not answer, she just dropped her head for a moment, as if she was about to faint. She had an emotional collapse that lasted just a moment.

    ReplyDelete
  44. When I look at Kate in some interviews she looks like she is at breaking point and Gerry is the one that keeps pushing them on. There are times she looks like she wants it all to be over and then as mentioned above she seems to escape from that role and carries on showing no emotion. The Mccanns as a couple now look very distant from each other.

    The Mccanns have definitely shown us a darker side to human nature when this is all over their interviews will be used as examples of criminals attempting to evade justice by body language experts and the like because they have put themselves centre stage into the glare of publicity.

    ReplyDelete
  45. @ Anon Jun 20th 6.16

    Liar. You are most certainly no biologist.

    ReplyDelete
  46. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2161094/Lianne-Smith-trial-Mother-tells-perfect-holiday-deaths-Spanish-hotel-room.html

    (Disturbing- No words for that. Poor little children)

    ReplyDelete
  47. Anon Jun 22, 2012 8:13:00 AM

    In this blog we don't accept baseless "facts" or accusations.

    If you have reason to believe that Anon Jun 20th 6.16 is a liar please explain why so that we can all understand.

    Thank you

    ReplyDelete
  48. anon 22, 8:13,

    your small sentence tells a lot about yourself.
    Don't worry....I'm a Biologist(but this means nothing to the point) and I have no reason to lie here or watever. I just interpreted facts available and delivered by a genuine source-The PJ files.
    You, even while using a short sentence, look nervous. This didn't surprise me. I'm used with that reactions every time I touch that subject, here or on Joana's blog.
    Your reaction just show, there is people in the blogsphere committed with a job-Looking at what is going on and who could be disturbing the 'Goooood Life of who lives under donations and don't want the truth to come out and the facts to be discussed'. Saying that I Lie and don't pointing out where I lie, just show your poor skills and your absence to present arguments against facts.Typical.
    Next time, at least pay a little more attention with 'who you endorse you comments': 20, 6:16 was Textusa, not me. 'READING' your absence of arguments was the best point to my 'point of view'. Means, you still alive no matter the sepulcral silence around Rothley and a certain lawyer in Lisbon.
    With compliments from anon @ 20, 10:46AM & 20, 6:27PM.

    ReplyDelete
  49. To my dear friend, who accuse me of being a liar, what is your explanation for the 15/19 alleles matching perfectly Madeleine DNA, found on the boot of the Scenic?

    The DNA is all made having at the base a combination of 4 proteins( same to all human). They are the structures of the genes and the way this genes combine, is what made us all unique. But of- course, on that combination, we could share some parts with somebody and since we got half of our DNA from each of our parents, we share more with our direct relatives then with rest of the population. But even by sharing that, we have parts of our DNA that were only ours and not shared with anybody else. When we look to the DNA of somebody, we look to the chain and specially to that unique combination.
    The best image to show that, is a bucket full of beads with different collors and the DNA being a collar made with a combination of that beads sorted out by a machine like the one that drops the balls in the Euromillions. After all, our DNA is the amazing result of a lottery that happen in the genes(the beads) of our chromosomes.
    From the FSS reports, they said that a sample was recovered from the boot of the scenic. They don't say if was blood or body fluids, but for the case, this is not important, because anyone has DNA. What is important is a small detail on that report that changes everything. The Scientist said, that even having 3 persons as a source, the sample shows 15 alleles matching perfectly a sequence of 19 that belong only to Madeleine. I'm assuming for obvious reasons that 2 of the persons who contributed to the samples, were Madeleine parents, but they had not such sequence of the 19 alleles because the report says that was 'unique' to Madeleine. Finding 15 alleles in a sample that match perfectly a sequence of 19 that belong only to a particular person, is a lot, is almost the full sequence and clear open a wide road for the police to investigate the crime in a certain direction. Means, Madeleine had been in the Scenic and for obvious reasons, you don't take alive children inside a boot.
    Back, to the Euromillions machine and the collored beads. The genetical lottery of Madeleine delivered to her a collar that have a combination of 19 collored beads that only belong to her. Think on everytime you watch the euromillions and think in 19 balls inside, coming out.
    -How many combinations you can get?
    -What is the probability to have a repeated combination ( the 19 that belong to Madeleine)? Infinitesimal.
    -From that repeated combination what was the probability to have it in two persons that shared the same location( The boot of the Scenic)? Almost ZERO.
    Since ghosts have no DNA and the Euromillions is not easy, we can draw our own conclusions fronm that small detail.
    They can jump to the moon, hire Carter-rucks, be friends with Rebecca Brooks, have little or big Pierrots, fool Cameron and Brown, intimidate all of us, they were trapped by the boot of the Scenic and this 15/19 alleles. And PJ knows that. Now imagine, if you add to that, samples of hair which can show clearly trough their roots, what was the condtion of the body when they fall.

    ReplyDelete
  50. Anon 10.51 well said looks like you touched a nerve with someone.

    ReplyDelete
  51. What a terrible reading, fluids from the brain and from the larynks.I hope she died soon after.No aenesthesy, it must have been horror.But then it raises the question about the red T-shirt.No blood on it, even if a tracheotomy was done.This could explain Amaral's words, that she died in two different places a) wearing the red T-shirt b) no clothes on, during the tracheotomy.If I am right, it took some time to find her after the first death(cadaver scent).Maybe there was not even a second death. The blood spray could explain the blood stains on the courtains and on this case she was still alive. Perhaps 5a misses a knife and we don't know.And it looks like she was not stabbed.
    Why not an ambulance, for goodness sake? How could Kate make such a mistake about the sedation, being a doctor herself? And what was Madaleine doing outside 5a, when she died for the first time? As far as I understood, Payne opened the back door to talk to Kate. Besides three young children were walking around, no reason to leave it open.

    ReplyDelete
  52. @11.58, you know a lot about DNA, more than Kate knows (ugh!).
    Could you thell us how far science is now, five years after the crime and if it is possible to find the missing 4 alleles in the samples that were collected in 2007?

    ReplyDelete
  53. Censored comment:

    “Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Number 1 Is Always The First":

    Okay, listen up, Mrs (censored)
    The sample recovered from the boot of the Scenic contained 37 markers from at least three individuals, possibly more. All Madeleine's markers are inherited from her parents. As all the McCann family had access to the scenic, it is completely impossible to determine whether the markers in the sample were contributed by Madeleine or by her parents and siblings. The fact that it contained 15 of the 19 markers her DNA was known to contain is meaningless - a mixed sample of her mother and her father's DNA would contain all 19 of her markers. Those results cannot rule out that she was ever in the car, but they certainly do not prove it, and a far more likely explanation is that the sample contains a mixture of DNA from each of her parents. (censored)

    Posted by Anonymous to Textusa at Jun 22, 2012 12:43:00 PM”


    Footnote from the blog:
    Anon, your comment at Jun 22, 2012 12:21:00 PM was not published for the following reasons:

    - I asked you to put forward a counter argument and you didn’t. Now with you comment at 12:43 you did and as you can see, it was published.

    - We don't publish any insulting comments as the purpose of this blog is not to be a “hate site” with insults flying. Your published 12:43 comment was censored for that reason.

    - Your comment is offensive profanity to those of religious belief.

    You, and anyone else, are very welcome to express any opinion different from both what has been written by the authors or by its readers but you have to do that by expressing your reasons within the boundaries of respect and common decency.

    If you’re unable to comply to those simple rules then please refrain yourself from commenting here.

    Comments such as the one received from you at 12:21 won’t be published.

    ReplyDelete
  54. An obviously censored comment:
    “ Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Number 1 Is Always The First":

    (censored), Textusa. You might fool these (censored), but many of us see you for exactly what you are.

    Posted by Anonymous to Textusa at Jun 22, 2012 1:32:00 PM”

    Response faster than expected with the expected vileness. Published for the sake readers’ awareness. Now enough is enough.

    ReplyDelete
  55. To clarify readers we never pretend to possess specialist qualifications in biology. We are therefore not in a position to confirm or deny the accuracy of any scientific comments on DNA evidence readers may send or we read in PJ files.

    However we, like you, do have the capability to read and form an opinion about what is sent in, very much like what we ask from you about whatever we publish.

    ReplyDelete
  56. Anon June 22, 1:16,
    Come on there is no such thing of having somebody dying in different places. This is not possible in practical way.
    Why complicating the case with sedation and tracheotomy? There is no reason to sedate Madeleine and cause her death due to that. We just need to make our brains work and look at what was available at the Resort and what could have been the reason to have so many nannies in the OC at low season. I just saw one, adult activities, and most probably Swing. The nannies and the facilities offered by the resort left no space for having children alone in the room, or for any sedation before the accident or the crime. Mccann's could be pathological liars, opportunists, desperate evading all the ways that could lead them to a proper trial, but they are not criminals to the point of deliberated being using drugs to control their children. At least this is my point of view and I'm very critical about all their behavior and decisions after May 3. A simple accident could lead a child to die almost instantaneous, leaving no time to react and do anything. If she falls down or if a tantrum happen and she was beaten, even without the intention of creating any damages on her. Something went out of control and they panicked. The evil starts after, when to conceal the situation they had to control the rest of the children and set up a history full of inconsistencies and lies. Here, I see a reason to sedate the other children.That is my point of view, because I see no reason for any sedation when she was alive and everything was well.

    ReplyDelete
  57. I can see Textusa, that my comments regarding DNA, touched somebody exactly in a sensitive point.
    She/ he can insult me. Is a typical reaction of who has no valid arguments to contradict what is being discussed.
    I still with my point.... In a very small part of the FSS Report there is a small detail saying that the 19 alleles were " unique to Madeleine". If so doesn't matter how many people contributed to that sample, doesn't matter how many DNA she shared with her parents ( of course she shared with them because she was their biological child) this 19 alleles were unique to her, then not shared with her parents. There is no reason to have 15 of them on the odd place where they were found. But I'm open for a good contra-argument against my point of view. Saying that all her markers come from her parents, is a "la palice" argument. Common sense, that everybody knows. But this markers were not all combined on the same way as they appear on her parents. Is that variation that made all of us unique and made the DNA so important as an instrument to solve crimes.
    Today the Science is so advanced that even in very small samples with a lot of contamination, tests can be done with a lot of accuracy, if who has the power to decide, allow the tests to be done. Just see what happen in a war scenery when a bomb kills many people leaving almost nothing. With time, the identity of the victims is possible.
    GA said that some labs in Europe have good tests. Suisse and Germain, are largely known for their good labs. Uk also. Only with Madeleine, the lab had problems and on that case, only with samples recovered from odd places- the scenic and the tiles of the flat or behind the sofa. Strange usn't it? No surprise, all the insults.
    I just apology to you Textusa, for the extra work my comments bring to your blog with that person that doesn't like what I'm saying.

    ReplyDelete
  58. Anon Jun 22, 2012 3:47:00 PM

    No apologies required here from anyone expressing their opinion and point of view. Thank you for you comments.

    ReplyDelete
  59. How is it possible put into question the qualifications of any scientific either of us?

    Only parents know what happened.

    Whatever it was, unfortunately died.

    An anaphylactic reaction can cause inflammation of the throat area and prevent air from passing; come and go. Usually it is necessary to quickly and cortisone injection. Oh and I'm no doctor or nurse. I'm just Aunt of a nephew to whom it happened.

    As a normal person without scientific training, tracheotomy is the solution perhaps more quickly and effectively. How do I know? Because I accompanied a friend, doctor, last month and a half of life. He said that he would die with shortness of breath (oxygen demand) or complete blockage of breathing and would have to do a tracheotomy. Both situations are panic, but to me the blockage by suffocation throat much worse.

    Was not need to perform a tracheotomy .......

    First "moment of death"
    Secondly, if resuscitation is not effective.

    Today I learned more opinions and assumptions.

    But this blog, the Team works with facts.
    ...........
    I hope they do not come here to put the issue of (not) graduate engineer.
    **********
    Como é possível colocar em causa as habilitações científicas ou outra de qualquer um de nós?

    Só os progenitores sabem o que aconteceu.

    Fosse o que fosse, infelizmente morreu.

    Um choque anafilático pode causar a inflamação da área da garganta e impedir o ar de passar; entrar e sair. Normalmente é necessário e rápidamente uma injecção de cortisona. Ah e não sou médica, nem enfermeira . Sou apenas Tia de um sobrinho a quem isso aconteceu.

    Como pessoa normal , sem formação científica, a traqueotomia é a solução talvez mais rápida e eficaz. Como sei? Porque acompanhei um amigo , médico, no último mês e meio de vida. Ele disse que morreria com falta de ar ( necessidade de oxigénio) ou de bloqueio completo da respiração e teriamos que fazer uma traqueotomia. Ambas as situações são de pânico, para mim mas o bloqueio por asfixia da garganta muito pior.

    Por acaso não foi preciso realizar a traqueotomia.......

    Primeiro " momento de morte"
    Segundo momento: se as manobras de ressuscitação não são eficazes.

    Hoje aqui fiquei a saber mais opiniões e hipóteses.

    Mas neste blog , a Equipa trabalha com factos.

    Eu espero que não venham aqui colocar a questão da ( não ) licenciatura do engenheiro.

    ******
    About:

    " ....... What a terrible reading, fluids from the brain and from the larynks.I hope she died soon after.

    No anesthesia , it must have been an horror."

    I don´t know what comes out from brain or ..... by suffocation but i believe if someone with an will be a great help to "sleep forever" . Will be a big help.


    But many have no luck.

    ReplyDelete
  60. If that is seriously the best the ''pretendy'' biologist can come back with, it's pretty feeble. For once, Textusa, listen up. You are being played for a fool. Publish this or not, it's your choice, but it's about time you understood it, because it's quite clear that person doesn't, and nor is she a biologist, as she claims. This really is not all that advanced - anyone with good A levels, or certainly with a degree would understand it perfectly. So I am going to do you a favour, okay?

    A child inherits half it's DNA from each parent (This is what is referred to as it's nuclear DNA, Nothing to do with power stations, or splitting the atom - it means it is found in the nucleus of all cells which have them, and is different to mitochondrial DNA which you will also see referred to in the files)
    DNA, as I am sure you know, is essentially a blueprint for a living organism. It contains all the information the cells need so that they can manufacture the various proteins, enzymes etc the body needs to function. The DNA of each individual is unique to them, except in the cases of identical twins, where they have identical DNA. tbc......

    ReplyDelete
  61. cont....

    Mrs Pretendy biologist lady understands some of this - but this is about where her understanding ends.

    So - when the DNA of a male and female combine to produce a child, the child inherits all their markers from mum and dad. But because which marker they inherit at each position is random, no two individuals (Except for identical twins) have exactly the same DNA sequence. Brothers and sisters will have more in common than two strangers, for example, but they will still have different sequences. I will give you an example

    Lets say we have child A

    Child A inherits the following, with M denoting Mum and D denoting Dad - the numbers represent the marker number
    1D, 2M, 3M, 4M, 5D, 6D, 7M, 8D, 9M, 10D
    (I am going to stop there as this is just an example, but imagine the sequence continues to 20, with each marker coming from either mum or dad, ending up with 10 from each)

    Now imagine they have a second child - child B

    Child B inherits the following markers

    1D, 2M, 3M, 4D, 5D, 6D, 7M, 8M, 9M, 10D......and so on up to 20

    Now - what do we have at the end?

    We have two children with some similarities, but with their own unique sequence of markers. Neither has exactly the same DNA as they have inherited different markers from each parent

    Now here is the really fundamental thing

    If I gave you a big pot which contained all the DNA markers from Mum, and all the DNA markers from Dad, what would you be able to assemble?

    You would be able to assemble Child A or Child B

    Why?

    Because the pot contains all the markers they have inherited from Mum and Dad

    And this is where pretendy biologist lady gets herself confused.

    The sample contained 37 markers, and those markers came from at least 3 people - how can they tell they are from at least 3? Well, the easiest way to think of it is to imagine if you found a big box of body parts and were trying to work out how many individuals it represented. If you found 3 heads, you would know that it represented at least 3 individuals. So in a mix of DNA markers, if you have three different copies of marker number 1, you know that at least three individuals have contributed to the mix.

    So what did the FSS find?

    They found 37 markers.

    Of those 37 markers, they found 15 which corresponded to those it was known that Madeleine carried.

    BUT.........Her parents carried those too. Between them, they carried all her markers. She inherited them from her parents.

    So, any mix of Kate McCann and Gerry McCann's DNA would contain ALL Madeleine's markers.

    Therefore, what can we say about the sample taken from the car?

    Can we rule out that it contains some of Madeleine's DNA?

    No

    Can we say for certain that it does contain her DNA?

    No

    And why?

    Because the markers which were found could have come from Madeleine, her mum or her dad. They could also have come from her brothers and sisters.

    So Mrs Pretendy biologist understands some of it

    Madeleine had a unique sequence of DNA markers

    But that sequence was not found in the car. Some of her markers were found in a mixed sample to which her parents could have contributed, making it impossible to show who exactly contributed all the various markers to the mixed sample.

    Now - feel free to consult a geneticist about what I have written. I can assure you they will tell you exactly the same.

    I profoundly disagree with you on almost every level, Textusa. But one thing you are not, is stupid. Go back and read what John Lowe said in his report, in light of the further explanation I have given you. Hopefully, it will make things somewhat clearer.

    cont......

    ReplyDelete
  62. cont

    I can tell you that Mrs Pretendly biologist lady is not what she claims to be, and I can state that because of this sentence she states

    ''If so doesn't matter how many people contributed to that sample, doesn't matter how many DNA she shared with her parents ( of course she shared with them because she was their biological child) this 19 alleles were unique to her, then not shared with her parents''

    You see, Madeleine's combination or sequence is unique, yes. But not the markers themselves. The markers she got from her parents. The FSS did not find ''a sequence'' . They found the markers. They can only claim to have found the complete sequence when they identify all the markers for the individual, uncontaminated by any others. And that was not what they found. If you like, they did not find one body. They found a big bin with body parts from lots of people, and no way of knowing which bit belonged to whom.

    And in not understanding this, Mrs Pretendy biologist lady really does give herself away

    Anyway - the ball is in your court. Believe or disbelieve, as you like. But at least do yourself a favour and go and read the FSS report again, yourself.

    Consider this a freebie, for old times sake

    ReplyDelete
  63. Jun 22, 2012 5:55:00 PM,

    To tell others what to do is the sign of arrogance. Arrogance always walks alongside with ignorance and fear.

    If I wish or not to be played for a fool is my business and mine alone. Also what I understand or not is for me to know by gathering information for and by myself, so please stop making judgments on my behalf.

    Do not turn on me as I've said and you seem not to have understood, we in the blog to not possess the required qualifications to debate such issue. Please address the right person next time.

    ReplyDelete
  64. the weekend appear animators best known for trolls. At the weekend is usually the party ProMcs.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Somebody is getting rather concerned about DNA! Why? His involvement with the Maddie case?

    It's certainly not out of concern for Textusa otherwise he wouldn't have started with abuse and anger towards Textusa.

    If I knew something about a topic and could make a contribution I would not begin by insulting the person I was trying to educate. I see he has now calmed down a little after showing his true colours.

    Is he now telling us, with his superior knowledge, that there were 'loads' of bodies in the boot of the scenic? I can't see any logical reason apart from hiding a body that there would be any DNA from bodily fluids from even one person in the boot of the Scenic. Where exactly in the boot was DNA found?????

    According to one report...

    "The sample was taken from the boot, where the spare tyre is kept, the sources said.

    Police also said they found so much of Madeleine's hair in the car that it could not have been transferred from a blanket or clothes and must have come directly from her body".

    ReplyDelete
  66. Well, anon 22, 5:57,
    All that to add nothing new apart the insults and a "sexist" way to see the females? Did you realize that while trying to contradict/ insult me, you arrive exactly to my point? Not because you are confident on what you are saying but because you copy what was in the FSS report forgetting one important detail, the report was made under a special request to fit a pre- agreed format. Why I suspect that? because of the reaction of PJ and because when PJ went to UK to proceed with the rogatory letters, a Portuguese forensic scientist working for the Portuguese national lab ( high qualified) went with PJ. They didn't buy what was in the report. I too.
    Call me "Pretendy Biologist", "Mrs pretendedly Biologist lady" or Watever you want, is a compliment and I' m really enjoying the way you feel annoyed by my comments. That shows me, that contrary to me and almost all people here, you have an agenda and the DNA subject is really a disturbing subject to you. The extend of your reaction and the quality, remind me a certain person and the arrogance of the Mccann's and their supporters. That epidote "Mrs...... Lady" fully reveals your education and the way you see a women or was just used to attack Textusa because you know this blog has Women's ( with capital W ) behind it? Stop involving Textusa in my comments, because I just express my opinion . Was on her blog, but could be in a newspaper or in any other place. It is curious that is not the first time that I got that reaction. Means, you are following what is going on in places where Madeleine case is being discussed, but you just post when what is going on doesn't fit your business. Cont.

    ReplyDelete
  67. Cont:
    Back to the DNA, I can't stop laughing with that exercise of numbers and letters. To achieve what? You don't even understand what you are trying to prove with your exercise. The best part was that one: "If I gave you a big pot which contained all the DNA markers from mum and dad, what would you be able to assemble? Child A or child B". Wrong:
    - first to have a child, you don't use all DNA markers from the parents. You use only half of each parent, since the sexual cells have half of the chromosomes, then half of the markers which accurately need to be called genes.
    - second, if you have in a pot all genes from both parents to produce a child, you don't get only child A and child B. In theory, you get millions, since each girl has on her ovaries millions of eggs ( no matter if only 1 or 2 mature in each menstrual cycle) and the man's have even more spermatozoids. Due to the limitation of the body nature, only one egg is normally released each month and ready to meet a spermatozoid, but the probabilities in theory are enormous. On your exercise the combination could also be child C or D, or E, or a child that never born.
    - When there is a crime and DNA is analyzed, there is a special test applied to the samples to determine the "DNA profiling" of the victim or the perpetrator, or both. it is called also DNA fingerprint because while using that technic what the investigator is trying to find is the sequence of markers ( genes) that are subjected to variation even in people belonging to the same family. On Madeleine DNA( used as a reference), they found 19. if they found 19, means they found a piece of DNA which has a sequence of 19 genes that appear on that combination only on her DNA. They had samples of the DNA of her parents, as references to be compared. In any part of the report, the scientist says that this 19 markers are also in the DNA profiling of her parents.
    She shared most of her markers with her parents and with the rest of the population in less possibilities. Amazingly, we share almost 99% of our DNA with everybody. But there is 1% that is different and that is enough to make each one of us unique. The DNA profiling searched when there is a crime is looking for that 1%. Why that DNA was found on the boot of the Scenic is what PJ wants to understand.
    Why discussing that here is disturbing so much somebody? Is a good point.
    Don't speak about markers like if they were a complicate subject, their accurate name is genes and the best image for genes is a collored bead and the way they combine, a beaded collar with different collors. Our DNA is a lottery that happen when the egg and the spermatozoid meet and the life began. Madeleine has on her collar a small part with 19 beads that appear combined in a particular way.

    ReplyDelete
  68. A very measured response to refute 'MR angry's'version of the DNA results. His attack was very desperate and came down to personal insults so obviously his nerves had been touched.

    It gave me a far better understanding of DNA when read alongside the PJ Files. Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Censored comment:

    “Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Number 1 Is Always The First":

    (censored)

    This is the best bit.

    ''. On Madeleine DNA( used as a reference), they found 19. if they found 19, means they found a piece of DNA which has a sequence of 19 genes that appear on that combination only on her DNA.''

    So completely wrong. (censored)

    (censored)

    Posted by Anonymous to Textusa at Jun 22, 2012 9:35:00 PM”

    ReplyDelete
  70. Censored comment:

    “Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Number 1 Is Always The First":

    (censored)

    Ask her what STRs are? (censored)

    Posted by Anonymous to Textusa at Jun 22, 2012 9:38:00 PM”

    ReplyDelete
  71. Censored comment:

    “Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Number 1 Is Always The First":
    Ha ! You (censored). You know I'm right, that's quite clear from the bits you are chosing to omit from my posts.

    You might want to tell her she is making such a fool of herself. I actually feel sorry for her. Tell her she doesn't understand the difference between profile and sequence, really, it's painful to watch. Great fun though

    Posted by Anonymous to Textusa at Jun 22, 2012 10:05:00 PM”


    To our biologist reader, I've been posting the last comments because among the aggressive and abusive language this BH places some questions to you.

    Since he's not able to use reason or reasonable language, I'll no longer be publishing his comments.

    To all our readers I apologise for this unpleasantness, but you may be happy to know that we've gone back to being a laughing stock somewhere out there, more precisely in fictionland.

    It's fascinating the amount of time they "waste" on what they deem to be a "nonsensical" blog...

    ReplyDelete
  72. To my dear BH friend.

    If I want to be nasty, I could say that STR on that issue could also stand for DNA structure. But non, I go direct to the subject and to avoid calling me a liar,I will say that STRs are 'Short Tandem Repeats' which means short repeated sequences of DNA (the DNA profiling). I copy and paste this information from a link available to anyone, where you can go and learn something. That is an important piece of information that could clarify the point and help anybody to understand what was checked in Madeleine case. Was the DNA profiling, because that is the procedure in all crimes:
    'STRs have become popular DNA markers because they are easily amplified by polymerase chain reaction (PCR) without the problem of differential amplification; that is, the PCR products for STRs are generally similar in amount, making analysis easier. An individual inherits one copy of an STR from each parent, which may or may not have similar repeat sizes. The number of repeats in STR markers can be highly variable among individuals, which make these STRs effective for human identification purposes.

    For human identification purposes, it is important to have DNA markers that exhibit the highest possible variation in order to discriminate between samples. It is often challenging to obtain PCR amplification products from forensic samples because either the DNA in those samples is degraded, or mixed, such as in a sexual assault case.'

    Source:http://www.forensicdnacenter.com/dna-str.html


    understand now? She got half STRs from each parents which could have similar repeat sizes or not.
    The number of repeats is STRs has high variation between individuals, even belonging to the same family.
    Was not me, was the forensic specialist who said that among the all shared markers found on the sample, 15/19 alleles match perfectly Madeleine DNA ( The DNA profiling, because there is no reason to search any other DNA). The specialist didn't say this 19 alleles from Madeleine were also found on Gerry or Kate DNA matching perfectly. And he had perfect samples of uncontaminated DNA( references) from Gerry and Kate to be compared. If that alleles were there under the same repetition, he will say 'exactly like one of her parents'. Instead, he went on with a rethoric to entertain the portuguese police. A music, the portuguese don't buy and some of the UK media didn't buy it as well, because where I heard first about the evidences found in the Scenic to be compromised to the Mccann's, was at Sky News with Martin Brunt. They were talking about this 15 alleles in the Scenic.

    With last post of dear BH, he/she shows that is somebody from inside the case. Trapped by the STRs. She/he knows that what was checked were the STRs and is not happy with what is being discussed.
    Sorry, the business did not work well to your side today.
    Mr. Redwood will have a hard time with PJ, if he goes there using your arguments to dismiss the details available on the reports. I can tell you, if the case become reopenned in Portugal involving a court, the Mccann's will have a hard time with the judges to give good excuses for Madeleine STRs in the boot of the Scenic.
    Explained why they runaway from any repoen in Portugal or UK. Some important evidences are there to be seen, and the others, very quicly PJ reach them, if UK allow them to do a proper and independent investigation, passing all information requested.
    Amazing your strategy to discover if I'm a she or a he. What is the importance of my gender? Did it make any difference in my brain or my skills? Stop being sexist. Is one more point against you, very'demode'.

    ReplyDelete
  73. I don't believe that the PJ sent all of the samples to England. I believe they kept a lot with themselves because Portuguese laboratories are also good.Besides it became clear, from day one, that it was a politic/diplomatic case. Portugal would not take the risk to send everything to a British laboratory.We are not stupid, are we?

    ReplyDelete
  74. Censored comment, this time from our biologist reader. Reason the use of the same expression against the BH that he used against you.

    "Anonymous has left a new comment on your post "Number 1 Is Always The First":

    To my dear BH friend.

    If I want to be nasty, I could say that STR on that issue could also stand for DNA structure. But non, I go direct to the subject and to avoid calling me a liar,I will say that STRs are 'Short Tandem Repeats' which means short repeated sequences of DNA (the DNA profiling). I copy and paste this information from a link available to anyone, where you can go and learn something. That is an important piece of information that could clarify the point and help anybody to understand what was checked in Madeleine case. Was the DNA profiling, because that is the procedure in all crimes:
    'STRs have become popular DNA markers because they are easily amplified by polymerase chain reaction (PCR) without the problem of differential amplification; that is, the PCR products for STRs are generally similar in amount, making analysis easier. An individual inherits one copy of an STR from each parent, which may or may not have similar repeat sizes. The number of repeats in STR markers can be highly variable among individuals, which make these STRs effective for human identification purposes.

    For human identification purposes, it is important to have DNA markers that exhibit the highest possible variation in order to discriminate between samples. It is often challenging to obtain PCR amplification products from forensic samples because either the DNA in those samples is degraded, or mixed, such as in a sexual assault case.'

    Source:http://www.forensicdnacenter.com/dna-str.html


    (censored) She got half STRs from each parents which could have similar repeat sizes or not.
    The number of repeats is STRs has high variation between individuals, even belonging to the same family.
    Was not me, was the forensic specialist who said that among the all shared markers found on the sample, 15/19 alleles match perfectly Madeleine DNA ( The DNA profiling, because there is no reason to search any other DNA). The specialist didn't say this 19 alleles from Madeleine were also found on Gerry or Kate DNA matching perfectly. And he had perfect samples of uncontaminated DNA( references) from Gerry and Kate to be compared. If that alleles were there under the same repetition, he will say 'exactly like one of her parents'. Instead, he went on with a rethoric to entertain the portuguese police. A music, the portuguese don't buy and some of the UK media didn't buy it as well, because where I heard first about the evidences found in the Scenic to be compromised to the Mccann's, was at Sky News with Martin Brunt. They were talking about this 15 alleles in the Scenic.

    With last post of dear BH, he/she shows that is somebody from inside the case. Trapped by the STRs. She/he knows that what was checked were the STRs and is not happy with what is being discussed.
    Sorry, the business did not work well to your side today.
    Mr. Redwood will have a hard time with PJ, if he goes there using your arguments to dismiss the details available on the reports. I can tell you, if the case become reopenned in Portugal involving a court, the Mccann's will have a hard time with the judges to give good excuses for Madeleine STRs in the boot of the Scenic.
    Explained why they runaway from any repoen in Portugal or UK. Some important evidences are there to be seen, and the others, very quicly PJ reach them, if UK allow them to do a proper and independent investigation, passing all information requested.
    Amazing your strategy to discover if I'm a she or a he. What is the importance of my gender? Did it make any difference in my brain or my skills? Stop being sexist. Is one more point against you, very'demode'.

    Posted by Anonymous to Textusa at Jun 23, 2012 12:26:00 AM"

    ReplyDelete
  75. to dear annon 12.26 fantastic posts you certainly know what you are talking about and you have definitely upset the BH with your knowledge.

    I am enjoying reading your responses well done.

    ReplyDelete
  76. Good morning Text and Husband, Sisters.

    Beware of the heat that will get it for our age it just makes us be careful. Also watch out ultraviolet radiation. We do not have to risk age. And I respect that care for me.
    *************************
      Good morning everyone.

    The DNA evidence from what I see here, some comments from non-specialists, is a top concern. They know well that even the DNA and what is around it is a cause for fear. If not, nor answered.

    People concerned with DNA (not about the comments for the expert in biology, biologist) be careful because fear also brings problems of balance in physical and mental health.

    ReplyDelete
  77. just few small questions to the BH who posts here:
    Why Paulo Rebelo don't change the lign of the investigation? He had the same reports, the same results, the same material.
    Why he did not dismiss the reports and clearly pointed the investigation in to another direction?

    Don't tell me de bla, bla, bla of the case been shelved and the arguido status lift.
    The case was shelved only because the Portuguese Prosecutor realized that they were wasting time and the public taxes in a case where the British authorities were not cooperating with their part of the investigation- steps that need to be done in UK were not done, using rubbish excuses. Lifting the arguidos status was just a normal consequence of the first reason. Not a passport of innocence.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Stuart Prior seemed baffled by the results so he must be one of the ignoramuses amongst us.
    On 4/9/07 Leicester Police sent a FSS report citing 15/19 matches of Madeleine DNA profile in the car boot.
    "With respect to the trace evidence behind the sofa all the confirmed DNA components coincide with the corresponding components in the DNA profile of Madeleine McCann."
    Portimao 11 September 2007
    Inspector Joao Carlos

    No wonder us less scientific souls are confused.

    ReplyDelete
  79. They know they are trapped not only by their lies and the lies of the helpers they dragged in, but also by the forensic evidences. That's why they loose all cases that reach the courts in Portugal. Amaral book won against their wishes and will be like that in the future, unless Judges could be corrupted by the money from the Fund or a promise of any promotion on their careers. The money in the Fund is going to less and less.
    Murdoch, trough Rebecca Brooks, played a double roll, ensured his business while pretending to play the roll of a naif character who was easily foolish by the parents. The way he passed to their hands the money, tells us a lot. Which paper pass such amount of money without involving a court and doing everything to prevent waste that money? Only a clever rat, who knows they were trapped and under his hands, to be used and explored on the best interest of the papers. In fact, was an investment, a good business. When they have done that step, they must know that the business was a long term business with "big events planned". Was a good source of money, because during almost 2/ 3 years, everyday there was an article ( fabricated or not) to attract the public and sell the papers. The 500 thousands payed to each part, were quickly recovered.

    ReplyDelete
  80. The McCanns are living under a terrible pressure of internet.Most of the blogs are against them. Bloggers have documentation about what happened, posters analyse them, they come up with ideas. Easy for the Scotland Yard to collect everything, specially the Freudian slips. They are living in a hell.And I also wonder if Kate regrets the offenses made to the PJ, "f...... tosser".
    They never expected the Met to get involved in the case. They trusted Rebecca Brooks who betrayed them.
    .

    ReplyDelete
  81. Goodness gracious me!!! My head is spinning with all the scientific information going back and forward in the comments! It's just too much for me ("muita areia para a minha camioneta"), but what really bothers me, the question that has benn on my mind for a long time regarding Madeleine's DNA is how it was obtained. WHERE AND WHAT FROM was her DNA sample taken??? If I'm not mistaken it was from a pillow, not from the apartment bvut from...Rothley!? Why from Rothley? Who can assure 100% that it was Madeleine's pillow? Her parents?! What I would very much like to know is why the sample was not obtained from the holiday apartment or any of the clothes she wore on the holiday, or her comb, hairbrush or tooth brush! Can anyone believe she did not have any of those items (which obviously would be of personel use, mainly the toothbrush) in Luz? One can accept the sharing of a comb or hairbrush, but a TOOTHBRUSH??? No way!
    I, personnaly have deep reservations about what was analyzed as being "Madeleine's DNA", maybe we are here pulling our hairs out about something that never was...

    ReplyDelete
  82. Textusa, can you by chance remember an article telling that Madeleine and Kate were regularly shouting at each other at the end of the afternoon, in 5a?

    ReplyDelete
  83. As far as I understood, there was only one toothbrush for the three todles.
    At that time the McCanns did not have the fund yet,in order to help them to afford three brushes.

    ReplyDelete
  84. About Madeleine's DNA, I don't think it was difficult to isolate it, among others.
    3x children of the same parents. Father and mother the same, different other characteristics in the rest, one boy, two girls.The laboratorium had to separate the two girls.There must have been hair on her bed in Rothley and in 5a. If science managed to identifie the members of the family of the last Tsar, after so many years, identifying Maddie's DNA is much easier.

    ReplyDelete
  85. I say that it takes a lot of need to come here and disrupt after a post about disrupters has been published recently. Why the need? A raw nerve?

    ReplyDelete
  86. I was also shocked when I read that they had one toothbruth for the three children. This says so much about the Mccanns and the treatment of their children Madeleine or the twins was an accident just waiting to happen with parents like that.
    Selfish parents that put their own pleasure before their children then lie about what happened, they are a disgrace.
    Just like to say thanks to the brilliant poster that has countered the BH comments on here about dna - brilliant loved reading your comments you certainly know your biology and you helped me understand some things better as well so thanks x.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Anon Jun 24, 2012 9:32:00 AM

    It's unfortunate that we get repeated references to neglect on a blog that maintains exactly the opposite position and that there are many other blogs to visit if you still believe neglect happened.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Tex,

    My comment was not referring to neglect it refers to the contempt shown by the parents towards their children.
    I am fully aware there was no neglect as I have often mentioned in my previous posts. The neglect was another lie to introduce the abductor.
    These children never stood a chance with such deceitful selfish parents.

    ReplyDelete
  89. No surprise for me, they used pieces with a possibility of weak DNA to show to the police. They are Doctors. They know very well the power and the infallibility of the DNA. Since their first approach with police, they played a trick game because the last thing they wanted, was the police finding Madeleine, when she was not yet in a safe place. They know, dogs are reliable and Portugal has a good reputation and a well trained team of dogs used in earthquake scenarios to locate people. Scared, if the police bring immediately to the crime scene, dogs. Like what happen. A Portuguese Camera man hired by Sky News, arrive very early on May 4 at the OC, and he reported the dogs searching everywhere. They gave to the police a bath towel as a source for Madeleine scent. Why not the clothes she wear that day ? A bath towel, in a resort, with 3 children having bath more or less at the same time, is a poor material to help the police locate a child. Unless, you don't want the child to be found. Which, I think, was the wish of who lived the last day of Madeleine.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Concerning the dna it is rather odd that the Mccanns did not pass to the police Cuddle cat as that would have had plenty of Maddie's dna on it being her special toy.
    Then tellingly Kate deliberately washed it once cadaver was discovered on it.
    Cuddle cat like everything else was 'a good marketing ploy'.

    ReplyDelete
  91. "#1 is always the first house in any street. Lote 1 is the first block apartment of Rua do Ramalhete."

    It is not true, lote 1 is near the other side of Ramalhete street in front of three tennis courts. I think it is due to the old numersation of the street: there are old houses there ...

    ReplyDelete

Comments are moderated.

Comments are welcomed, but its reserved the right to delete comments deemed as spam, transparent attempts to get traffic without providing any useful commentary, and any contributions which are offensive or inappropriate for civilized discourse.

Textusa